Unlocking The Power of eSIM Technology

In today’s ultra connected era, how can we make every interaction frictionless? How can we make every experience safe? What if we all had within ourselves a secure way to access the world? Our identity is the key to securely accessing our future. We all are unique. Me, you, us, them. And protecting each uniqueness is crucial in today’s increasingly vulnerable world. That’s where our unique identity technologies come into play for everyone to safely embrace life. Because the more protected we are, the freer we feel. Unlock the world, make it safer. Hello everyone and welcome to this panel discussion, part of IDEMIA’s Connectivity event series. Thank you for joining us from wherever you are in the world today. My name is Jason Russo Hall, I head up the IoT business here at IDEMIA. I will be today’s moderator for the discussion, trying to keep some interactivity and keep the flow and keep the discussion moving and obviously providing some questions from the audience as they are coming. And on that note please feel free to add your own questions in the chat which you should see on your screens today. With me here today I am joined by Tomasz Wozniak who is Head of IDEMIA Product Management focused on eSIM and IoT. And also joining us, special guest Ken Otsuki, who is Business Development Director and Head of Carrier Relations at Soracom. Before we start, I’ll let you guys just do a brief introduction and a bit more detail about yourselves, your role and Ken also if you could give us a brief overview of Soracom. Thank you so much. Hello everyone. Thanks for joining the event and thanks to IDEMIA for such a great opportunity for the webinar today. I’m Ken Otsuki, based in London, in charge of business development in Soracom and also in charge of the carrier relations in Soracom. Let me just briefly explain about Soracom itself, if I may. We established our company in twenty fifteen, so it was almost like seven years. And by veterans on the telecommunications side, SIM side and also the cloud side of technology. So we established our core network connectivity management platform on the cloud side because we know all of the technology, including SIM card and the telecommunications side and also the cloud technology as well. And in the beginning, we started our business in Japan mainly for sure. But for the past like three or four years, we are accelerating our global expansion recently and now providing multiple connectivities in the global mass customers on the market as well. Thanks for the event. I’m really looking forward to talking about eSIM technology and its future. Thank you, Ken. Hi, Jason. And hello everybody. My name is Thomas. I’m an eSIM enthusiast. I love eSIM and everything that is surrounding it, that’s why my main occupation is with regards to the EUICC and its personalization and what you mentioned very briefly Jason is the security. Thank you both and again welcome, it’s good to have you here with us today. So, let’s begin. Let’s take a quick look at the agenda before we get into the detail. So first, we will take a look at the ecosystem, the IoT ecosystem with a brief market overview, obviously with a focus on eSIM and its evolution in the marketplace. Second, we will then take a look at the role of an MVNO service provider in the marketplace today with Ken and maybe take a little bit more of a detailed look at some use cases that are live today. We will then be moving to how to scale your eSIM technology or your eSIM solution in the marketplace today. And then finally, we look to the future. How will eSIM technology evolve? What will that product landscape look like in the future and the impact on the market? Right, let’s begin. First up, Tomasz, over to you. Please take us through some key market information and statistics. Okay, thank you Jason once again. So hello, let’s see the numbers. We’ve been talking a lot about the IoT market. We are talking a lot about the eSIM, not only from the M2M side but from the consumer side. I think the numbers will highlight some of the discussions that we are seeing in the market for the past few years. The first one is linked to the transitions of eSIM into really a digital product. So fifty four percent is the increase of eSIM profile transactions for all the markets, so not only IoT but automotive and consumer. This is not information gathered just by IDEMIA, just by Soracom, this is the information that we gather together within the Trusted Connectivity Alliance, TCA, that is gathering IDEMIA and other players from the SIM market. This percentage and this number shows an increase in the number of profiles that are running across the world that are being downloaded on the eSIM and it is also significantly showing the changes that are happening within the EUICC itself which are linked to the change of the operator, which is linked to the change of the ownership of the EUICC. With this number we are followed by the thirty eight percent of the growth of M2M eSIM shipment. Here I am going from the platform and digitalization mode to the hardware part where we see and it’s coming and it’s being followed by the IoT market when you see that the growth of iSIM interest is very big. It’s not only that we are replacing SIM cards with EUICC, we are also expanding into new IoT markets. At the beginning the market was very shy we can say, but now we see attraction especially in the smart metering, in tracking devices, in the health department, in the agriculture and something that I think we will touch also in the routing system where the EUICC is really finding its place. For the third numbers, perhaps I will let you, Ken, discuss that. Sure. Yes, if I may. Thanks so much. So actually, as I mentioned in the beginning, we started our business seven years ago, and that was in twenty fifteen. And at the moment, actually, all of our customers were using a plastic SIM card. So that means there was zero eSIM customers at the moment. But once the IoT became more mature in the industries, and we see there are lots of inquiries from the end customers, oh, we just want to use the eSIM for the devices. And because of that and in the beginning, actually, most of the end customers’ expectations was to try to get the advantage by using the physical side of the benefits by using the eSIM, mainly because of the long term operations on the device lifecycle, especially in the case of like utility side of use cases, which were expected more than like five years, like ten years lifecycle. And also, there are lots of industrial devices that were expecting physical endurance. That means more like high resistance to humidity and also like temperatures and also the vibrations and some others. So this kind of physical benefits for us was one of the big expectations from the end customers. And once the end customers started the actual deployment to the global market, then having multiple global connectivities and also having multiple profiles was one of the additional requirements from the customers as well. And as you can see here, on the right side of the graph, there are the actual numbers that we have with our customers. And this is the latest stats that we have as of this July. So as you can see here, more than fifty four percent of our customers are already choosing the eSIM. And we used to be quite low, as I mentioned. But every year, we see a high increase of actual eSIM adoption. So eSIM is being more like accepted by the end customers and also the OEMs and also the market as well. That is what we see currently in the market. And on that point, Ken, obviously, seven years is a short time in some cases in our industry, it can be seen as a long time. So over that period, you will have obviously seen change and maybe perceptions change and expectations of eSIM change. Can you maybe just give a little bit of context on the changes and on the expectations you’ve seen with regard to eSIM across the whole ecosystem? Yes. So in the beginning, actually, as I mentioned, there are lots of physical side of expectations from the end customers. But now once the end customers try to deploy their service to global deployment, mainly for the horizontal deployment to many of the countries, then having multiple connectivities in any part of the world is one of the important things. And also how we can try to have the cloud side of smooth integrations with a secure environment is the another side of the story. So how we can just try to make it happen in a secure way, not only from SIM side, but also including device and also the connectivity side and also the cloud side. So end to end sort of like security is another side of the expectations from the end customers. And Tomasz, what’s your view on that point over the last seven years in terms of market expectation? Yes, seven years is a lot. For EUICC perhaps it’s less. For me, it’s one third of my experience in the SIM industry. The EUICC itself found its place only ten years ago, we are already talking a lot about that. I am just wondering what will be the next and how long it will take, but seven years, seven years it will take, it’s a time that passed when we spent a lot of effort and experience to build the interoperability. The beginning was tough, of course it’s everything, it was ten years ago. Or it was everything, it was EUICC ten years ago or seven years ago even when I remember when we met first time with Ken, we discussed the proprietary solutions at the beginning and they of course emerged after into the thanks to the GSMA into some standards and we finally achieved interoperability and I think we are very happy to announce that interoperability for the past few years is already existing. The second part as I mentioned is the experience with the markets. EUICC from the beginning has been invented to support one or two use cases. During the past seven years we of course we found much more use in the EUICC and we developed additional features on top of that. First of all, is the security, but I’m not talking about the security inside the EUICC, it’s as secured as the SIM card, even better because we consider that we have to put, we added additional mechanism to that. But what is very important is the secure credential management. So everything that we are doing together with Soracom, I mean the profile download that is secure that something that did not exist before where we take care of operator assets, we encapsulate it in some kind of a security and we put it over the air and put it on the EUICC. So a lot of things has happened, first interoperability, this is important. Second, experience we gain in the markets and I think we will discuss that more today hopefully. And the third part is the security that we assure to the customers and to our clients. Okay, thank you both. And Ken, so maybe moving on in terms of the agenda and topics now from with all of that in mind and from a service provider perspective, what does that mean for the role of a Soracom, of an MVNO in the marketplace today? Thanks. As I mentioned today, there are a couple of points I think. One is how we can easily provide multiple connectivity throughout the world. So especially if the customer really expected global expansion. Then of course, one of the options that they can have is to just try to talk to each country’s MNOs one by one and just try to have physical SIM card connections and just try to have the contract with the MNOs one by one. Of course, that is one of the solutions for sure. But if they are really expecting to have multiple deployments, I would say horizontal deployment to many of the countries, then that is not a very realistic approach. And in that case, like us, the global MVNO can be more flexible, try to have multiple connectivity in many of the countries, and that is one of the solutions that we can bring value to them. So and the on top of that, having the connectivity itself is more of a fundamental point. So if the customer really wants to have the service, then just providing the connectivity is not enough. They also have to comply with local regulations, like certifications, regulatory compliance, law for sure and tax and so on. So that’s another side of this kind of more like operational and administration side of things, and one of the values. So the other side of the mission that we have is how we can just lower the barriers for end customers. And lastly, as I mentioned today, how we can make it more smooth for the cloud side of integrations in a secure way. So that’s the last part of the missions that we have as the global MVNO and the active platforms. And I think as we can see from the slide at the moment, from a use case perspective, there’s quite a range of diverse use cases that you as a service provider have today. Indeed. So as you can see here, we currently have more than twenty Ks, that means twenty thousand customers right now in the global market. And as you can see here, there are some quite typical IoT use cases. So like LiteON is the sort of like a utility and the gas metering project that we have with the end customers. And you can just see some other quite typical IoT use cases, like lift management, EV charging recently and warehouse management and the factory management and also like agriculture use cases as well. And recently, we do see more use cases with consumer related devices as well, like e-scooters, smartwatch, like healthcare devices. So these are the additional customers that we recently have. And if I may, Ken, obviously there you’ve got some non traditional use cases with Bee Hero and actually looking after the kind of insects of the world and the bee population. That’s quite interesting. Very diverse. Indeed. Very interesting. Yeah. So there are lots of agriculture tech companies that are now trying to tackle and try to resolve and address lots of the pain points by using IoT technologies. So this is really the unique kind of scenarios that we see recently. Exactly. And maybe on that, Ken, if you could maybe just give us more of an in-depth view on a particular use case and the benefit that the eSIM and IoT connectivity brings to that use case. Thank you. Yeah. So here is another interesting topic and use case that we have within the customers right now. So as you can see here, this is the Pocketalk and the actual company itself is the Pocketalk as well. And this is a sort of like a translation device and kind of like a consumer related device though. But once the customer just tries to use this one, the device just tries to record the data and then tries to send the data to the cloud side. And then the cloud side will automatically compute and translate the data and then send it back to that. So that means on the device side, it doesn’t do any of the computation almost. But the cloud side will do it on behalf of them. So it’s pure like IoT and quite like a mutual communication IoT device. And if I may, to be more specific, one of the missions that we have to do is the customer really wants to have global connectivity. And they just want to sell the products in any of the countries and they just want to support any of the languages in any part of the world. And also, just want to have connectivity all over the world. So that means we need to provide wider connectivity in that case. And just to try of course, our default connectivity has global coverage, but just try to have wider and better connectivity in any of the countries. We just need to have multiple subscriber management to try to have the better and suitable profiles into the device. So that is one of the use cases where we are using these technologies on the device. Thank you, Ken. I think it’s quite interesting to see actually the real diversity in use cases and actually with twenty thousand customers after only seven years is a huge achievement to be honest. And with that being said actually if we move on to the next topic from a scalability perspective and Tomasz I’ll come to you on this one to start with, how do you think businesses should be addressing their scalability when it comes to eSIM, when you consider the use cases that Ken has talked about here and obviously our experience, how you think businesses should be addressing that scalability topic? So, first of all, very interesting use case. It shows how you can implement eSIM or M2M EUICC in the consumer IoT scenario. So, this is one of the use cases I like because it is showing the variety of the solutions that we can have. And to answer what you said, perhaps we should first discuss three points. The first one Each time when we bring in something new and this is linked to the scalability we have three concerns. The first one is the security and the privacy of course. Is the new solution going to answer to all the concerns that we have on this one. The second is what I already mentioned indirectly with the proprietary solutions is the ecosystem fragmentation. So if I am for example an OEM I would like to build a device that I am bringing to the market and I am not caring if it is working with this operator and if this is working with this service provider, I would like that it work that it is interoperable. So this is the second one and the third one is the system or the challenges of the implementations. If I put EUICC inside, will it work from the beginning? Do I need something else? And that’s why we build not only EUICC but on top of that we build the platform that is enabling the download of the profile. So something that Soracom is using, something that a lot of our clients are using. And in this case, with the EUICC we answer to all three of them. And we direct of course the use cases towards the OEM factory, where we see big advantages of EUICC towards other solutions. First, we are bringing EUICC in different form factors. It’s not because we like that, it’s to reduce or to improve the PCB footprint that is requested. For seven years, so I will stick to the seven years of this period. For several years we saw the decrease of the form factor from standard SIM cards that was plugged into the smart meter up to wafer level chip scale package. That is one of the smallest packaging and also other packagings that can be even smaller than the chip scale package, which has two by two millimeter dimensions. So this is a big advance and then we can of course talk about the form factor that does not exist which is integrated SIM that you basically put inside the system on chip. The second enablement is the factory testing. In the previous years, in the previous life of the device, we just had to take a SIM that was tested and put it into the device and plug it in to test that it’s working. Now when we are soldering and this is what you mentioned Ken before we have fifty six percent of the increase of the embedded we have to give an ability to the factories to test it inside so that means switching from the test profile to the final destination profile and this is something that we are bringing. And the third point is the advantage linked to the security and to the concerns. If I am soldering a device I want to be sure that this device is working from the beginning. I cannot remove it after. I cannot go and to have my technician looking for the device to change the chip. So that’s why we are bringing with a design OS that is answering to this one that is having a built in self testing where you can check the memory that we are building the memory erosion mechanism to prevent from something like that. And this is how we scale from our side in terms of the chip, we are scaling the solution to answer to our customer needs. So really from your perspective then Tomasz, the scalability is around how you integrate that connectivity into a device. Much more smoothly and much more efficiently cost wise, space wise. Ken, from your perspective, how do you see that obviously being a service provider in the ecosystem today? Thank you. Actually, my scalability understanding is also quite similar to Tomasz. So the first thing is about how we can improve like PCB size and also footprint, because even with the current MFF2, which is the six by five millimeters, sometimes the customer just tries to complain about its size because just to consider in the silicon dioxide industry, even this kind of size is a little bit too big to them, especially in the case of like a smartwatch, some other utility meters and devices where the PCB size is really sensitive. In that case, even six by five millimeters is a little bit too big to them. And sometimes they are asking, oh, do you have the smaller size of the options for the eSIMs? Then they really want to make the PCB a much smaller size with that. So the first thing is about how we can just try to optimize the size of the eSIM. So that is one of the things for the further scaling. And next one is more for the actual operations. So the actual question is how we can ensure the interoperability itself. Because one sort of like benefit of the eSIM is the end, as I mentioned today, end customers do not need to purchase each provider’s or each MNO’s SIM cards in every single country. But on the other hand, so that means they don’t need to do the testing with, like, ten, like twenty different SIM cards anymore. But on the other hand, once the eSIM itself is soldered already, then we also need to try to ensure the interoperability and also the sort of like stability of the connectivity itself because the eSIM itself has already been soldered and that is sort of like the only option that they can just use. So what we are currently doing is having multiple tests with the various major IoT modules, so that we can just try to ensure the connectivity in any part of the world and with any of the MNOs. So I think these two are the key points here. And I think we’ve actually hit upon a very interesting topic because we have a number of questions coming in from the audience today. I think maybe we take a couple of them now as we move through. So one of the questions coming in is how do you choose or how would you choose between the eSIM or the iSIM as you kind of pick the connectivity form factor you need? Tomas I’ll come to you first. Okay, it is a difficult question for me because I would select either one or the other, both are very good. But from the customer perspective, there are customers that still prefer EUICC. It has been certified as I said, it has been a little bit longer than the integrated iSIM and they are waiting for assurance. And from their side they have typical needs that we can answer easily with soldered hardware where everything in terms of the lifecycle management is clear. On the second side, on the other side, when we are talking about specific markets like for example what you mentioned the tracking devices where the power consumption must be really correctly measured and also the size and the design is really limited in terms of the dimensions. The iSIM seems perfectly suited. It does not have any form factor, it’s transparent. I think it’s an OS that you put inside the system on chip and in this case I think the iSIM is perfectly suited. Of course when we will develop the market other use cases will come, but for both for the moment for me both are coexisting perfectly. And there is one advantage is either it is eSIM or it is GSMA approved iSIM. Your subscription manager will work in both cases. You can download the profile with no issue either it is a Soracom profile that is working on IDEMIA UICC or you take a module vendor that is having an integrated UICC and you downloaded it, it would work. So the question is rather what is needed on your side, what do you put more if it is a power consumption or perhaps you would like to have some other features that can be enabled with the EUICC. Thank you, Thomas. And Ken, from your perspective, how would you answer that question? Thank you. If I may, yes, I think I totally agree with Tomasz’s opinion. So size wise, the cost and the power consumption, these are quite one of the benefits of adopting eSIM technologies. But if I may, on top of that, what we can expect more might be like the process change. So currently, in the case of like eSIM the customer or like OEMs try to purchase the module from the different supply chain. And from the operator side like us, they will try to purchase the eSIM physically. So there are two different supply chains and logistics side of things. And also, of course, then the customer needs to solder. And we are doing a lot of training and technical support for how they can just do the soldering, how they can connect with their own module and so on. So but in the case of the world of iSIM technologies, the SIM profile is pre installed inside the module. And also, there will be no physical SIM anymore. So in that case, what a customer like an OEM has to do is just purchase the module with the iSIM embedded in a pre-installed version, which may be more beneficial to try to optimize the whole supply chain. And also the heating process or soldering process will be more optimized in the end. So this is kind of like the physical and the sort of like process change is what we are also expecting in the world of iSIM. So if I were to summarize those answers just quickly, we’re basically seeing iSIM as an evolution from eSIM, both from a performance perspective and from a new form factor perspective. And both should be part of any kind of customer portfolio, different use cases, different needs, but ultimately interoperable between each technology. One more question actually, back to you Tomasz, one related to eSIM profiles in fact. So do mobile operators or MVNOs need to adapt eSIM profiles per device? This is the question that we get especially from the industry players that just use connectivity instead of building that and so I think operators and service providers know very well that most of the time we don’t do anything with that so if you have an eSIM profile that is working on one of the devices it doesn’t forbid you to put it on something else and it should work. If it doesn’t work it is more a device issue I think rather than the profile. On the IDEMIA side we are testing, I think Ken you mentioned that you are working with the module vendors. IDEMIA exactly, we are doing the same. We are getting the module vendors from our partners and we are running them through the hundreds of tests linked to different profiles from different regions and I can once again say that there are profiles that are working on all of them. All of the profiles are working on all of them. Most of the issues that we can find if any are more linked to the power consumption or the lack of respect from some of the devices within the current or the voltage but the eSIM profile is working perfectly. And what I mentioned before and I’m repeating this once again is if I have an eSIM profile that is working on the UICC nothing prevents it from working on the integrated UICC. Of course under condition that it is GSMA approved. Okay, thank you both. I think we can conclude that eSIM technology is ramping up and changing the face of IoT connectivity as we see it today. But what about the future? What do we see on the horizon? What technology evolutions are coming next? Maybe, Tomasz, I’ll come back to you if you can start and just give your view on what the future does look like or may look like from your perspective. Yes, that’s a very key question and we’re having that once again, we’re discussing that a lot within the GSMA, within the TCA, with our partners, operator partners. As we mentioned from the beginning the IoT market is expanding. We have new use cases, we are having some security threats coming from the hackings from all over the industry that are linked with the fragmentation or with some other challenges. We are trying to answer them. EUICC or integrated iSIM seems to be the best match where we can put the security asset to prevent from that. But by doing that we have to tailor the solution. So I think there are two important aspects that we have to discuss and we have to align on. The first one is the IoT protocols. For the moment the specification is running on either on SMS or on HTTPS. We have to adapt other protocols to be really IoT proofed. And the second one is the personalization. We mentioned EUICC, it’s being personalized within our factories and then we deliver that to the company that is delivering that to the OEM. So this is let’s say a standard process but within the integrated we need to do the personalization externally. We are connecting already with our partners, have our service externalized or even the cloud where we do the personalization that’s not over the air but over the wire. But this is a very important aspect if you want to move on in terms of the interoperability. For the moment, it’s being discussed, but I think this is the near future that we are going to see. And Ken, from your perspective? Thank you. From the MVNO, global MVNO point of view and the platform point of view, actually, we do not see a big issue itself on the current M2M certifications. But just trying to consider the specific use cases or the technology wise, we may sometimes see challenges. I think there are a couple of examples. But one thing is about NB-IoT, let’s say. So in the case in the world of NB-IoT, there is no SMS support. Of course, it can support, but the industry specific specification and the GSMA guidelines supporting the SMS features on NB-IoT is optional. And so far, not all the operators who are running the NB-IoT network are supporting the SMS features. But speaking of the M2M GSMA specifications, using the SMS plus OTA is a mandatory feature to trigger the actual profile download. So there’s this kind of technology gap that actually exists. And also in the case of quite limited IoT devices, let’s say, like asset tracking devices, they do not stay awake throughout the lifecycle. That means once they really need to send the data, that’s only the timing that the device wakes up. So in the case of like a recent asset tracking case that we saw, it only wakes up when they really need to send the data, but it just wakes up for like twenty seconds. In that case, there is not enough time frame to complete the actual profile download. So the technology itself is not kind of like a mismatch, but just considering the actual customer use cases, actual device design and the implementations, sometimes there is a sort of gap between the actual standardization technologies and also the actual implementation on the customers’ and OEM side of design. These kind of things are sort of like the challenges that we sometimes see. Agreed. And I think just one question I know, Tomas, you will like, just coming in and I think everybody will be asking and thinking the same thing. So for the new evolution in the IoT specification, what’s the market expectation around timing and deployment of that? So the market is always as it is, always wants to have it ASAP, so as soon as possible. This is true, we’ve been discussing with our customers, with our partners. Whenever they hear there is a new specification arriving, of course they want to have it as soon as possible to implement it, it must be ready for now. And this is what we are going to do of course. But on the other side I wouldn’t be worried about the specification itself and on the complexity because it’s something that is going to be handled by us. We in fact, someone that is just using a connectivity, so taking our SIM, sorry the EUICC or the integrated EUICC and putting it in their device and putting it on the market, they don’t want to hear if it is EUICC M2M, if it is a working group seven, if it is EUICC consumer. What do they want? They want that it is working. So everything that is the complexity and the implementation should be transparent for this client. It’s us, it’s more IDEMIA-like companies and Soracom-like companies that should take this complexity and make it transparent, put it in an abstraction layer on top of that, not only on the UICC itself but also on the server side, provide the APIs, I’m sorry I’m perhaps too technical and basically make the world happen and if someone is pushing the button so they enable a new M2M, working group seven, SGP32 sorry I am throwing some numbers, acronyms but this should happen, it should be transparent for the customer. Thank you, Tomasz. So I think we’ve got a few minutes left. I think let’s go to maybe a couple of questions just to kind of finish off. So a couple more from the audience. So Ken, one for you maybe. Why is connectivity orchestration so important for M2M connectivity management? You have sixty seconds. Well, thank you. All right. So from our point of view, of course, just to try to provide the multiple and global seamless connectivity is one of our missions for sure. But if we try to bring any of the local profiles with the MNOs, then always the network integrations and including like subscription manager will happen. And sometimes it will take quite a lot of effort and time for that. And of course, we can just try to do that, but this is really time consuming and hard negotiations with the MNOs always happen. So but once we are ready for everything, so that means we can aggregate multiple profiles, then that is going to be quite a good asset for the upcoming deals as well. So this is kind of orchestrating and how we can just try to aggregate multiple profiles, which is really essential, and those are quite important points for the further expansion of the global business. Okay. Thank you, Ken. And just staying with you very quickly, what role is the public cloud playing in eSIM management? Okay. Good question as well. Yeah. So as I mentioned in the beginning, actually, we set up our whole core network on the AWS environment. So that means in our office, there are no servers, no equipment at all because everything is running on the cloud environment. And not only is this about the core network, but also the connectivity management platform side. We are also establishing the cloud environment as well. So and one of the other things is how the EUICC plus the subscription manager will be on the cloud environment. So really, we are also doing lots of investigations and research and we are really looking forward to how GSMA standardizations and how the security policy will be in the next few years. Can I? Yeah, okay. So, I can assure you that Subscription Manager on the cloud is working perfectly. So, that’s why I can assure you. I think recently we did some press releases about the collaboration that we’re having with Microsoft. I think it’s something and one of the key points that is linked to the expansion of the UICC and the needs that we see. Being limited to just one or two premises is no longer a possibility, we have to be available in all the countries, in all the continents and collaborating, partnering with a public cloud is something quite important. It’s not only on the subscription manager but we could think further about the personalization and other things. Thank you, Tomasz. Thank you, Ken. Well, we’re coming to an end for today’s session. Just before we wrap up, very briefly, if you were to kind of leave one message with the audience today within ten seconds, what would that be? We’ll start with you, Tomas. One message? Okay, but I have three, sorry. Okay, three of the ten. Three. First one is the partnership. You will not succeed in IoT without the partnership. The second one is the trust between all those working. We have gathered the trust with the banking, telecom and we want to expand it to the IoT. And the third is what I mentioned is the transition. In fact it’s a seamless transition which is linked with the trust and partnership so that our clients do not see the complexity that it from time to time may bring. Thank you, Thomas. And Ken, your key takeaway for the people today? Can I say three points as well? So, yes, from my point of view, I think we have three points. One is, as we have discussed today, technology evolution is one of the things. Of course, it seems it has been ready for like ten years. But now, the IoT specification is coming, the iSIM is coming and other form factors are coming. So there are lots of new evolutions happening in the industry for the further scaling on the road ahead. And secondly, it’s more like security wise. We are always trying to ensure the security within a quite secure environment. And of course, the eSIM and the EUICC work for that. So this is the second point. And lastly, as you mentioned, the partnership for sure is one of the important points. So not only just the eSIM itself, but the subscription manager is another side. And on the device side, as I mentioned today in the beginning, how we can try to ensure the cloud side, the Internet of Things side is still an important thing. So everything should be connected to each other. And IoT is really tough to just go with one company. So in that case, how we can just try to make the partnership safe, including the customers, is really an important point. Thank you, Ken. That was definitely more than three. Sorry, it was a bit long. It was a very long ten seconds. Thank you both. Yes, but thank you both. And there we have it, everyone. We’ve heard from two of the leading industry experts today. So thank you for joining us. Thank you for your questions. And we look forward to welcoming you again to another IDEMIA Connectivity event in the very near future. Thank you and have a good day or good evening wherever you are. Bye bye for now.