eSIMs for Smart Devices: From Integration to Operation

This is our SORicon Webinar series. We're talking about Ethan for smart devices and specifically from integration to operation, I'm your host, Ryan Carlson, the Technology evangelist at Sorecom, and I'm also joined today by Titoo Botush, the CEO of Neuronic Works, who's both the technical expert and an engineer. So we can have the actual hard hitting technical questions if those happen to to come up. This webinar series is brought to you by SORacom, a cloud native cellular provider for smart devices. We believe that there's a bill of rights for smart devices and that a cellular device can connect without taking extra steps. Picks its own carrier based on where it's installed. It automatically fails over between carriers without human intervention. It can change plans and coverage without swapping sims, A single SIM will provide coverage around the globe, and a private APN can work across multiple carriers, and it won't take months or years to set up and slow down projects with no minimums. These are the things we believe that smart devices deserve. It's what they can have. And we're gonna go on to what we've been planning. Today, we're talking about esM technology, the role it plays, how you can improve performance and reduce cellular data consumption, We're gonna have a great little discussion about device authentication and certificate management and things that can be done to speed that up and then we'll have an operations discussion. For those that are looking to know how it is that this stuff happens on the back end, we'll address a number of those those steps and processes. But first and foremost, let's just admit that when you go out to the interweb and you see there's eleven bajillion eesomes that are gonna be deployed by, like, keep pushing the goal posts back. At some point in the future, there's gonna be a lot of these things. And the analysts, unfortunately, all of these predictions, growth models, and third party forecasts, don't actually mean anything for your project unless you happen to be on the supply side. The major drivers today are actually automotive industry and the consumer electronics industry for ESIMs. And that's because there's physical security requirements both these industries They have really large volumes, and they both use robots to do all of their assembly. And those factors combined are why we've got the standards that we do today, the way that ESMs work today, and it's based off of these two primary drivers but it's not to say that it doesn't have value in all of smart devices and IoT, and there have been many ways of actually leveraging that. It's just when we look at the constraints, If we keep in mind that automotive and mobile are driving it, a lot of these different constraints start making a lot of sense. One of the things that we wanna talk about, we're not here to convince you to use esims. You already know you wanna use an embedded SIM within your device, but there's internal resistance and external constraints may be getting in the way of yell leveraging this particular type of hardware in your design. Let's first talk about internal resistance. And oftentimes, the three most common stakeholder topics that we see is That's awareness process and fear uncertainty and doubt whether and we'll cross this chasm about some of these different topics. That the conversations when we're talking about an embedded SIM are interesting because it's engineering manufacturing and operations and involved when traditionally when we're talking about a removable SIM. Usually, it's just operations. Maybe the tail end of manufacturing, and it's not so much a consideration you put the little SIM slot on the the the motherboard, and you're good to go. You get to pass that buck in at someone else's decision. As far as roadblocks to adoption in the internet of things or smart devices is that this decision needs to be made during hardware design. And that's why we've got t two here to to lend a little bit of a voice to this conversation. It favors large manufacturing runs, embedding a SIM often times threatens internal established internal processes around ordering supply chain, any number of reasons. There's a lot of confusion also when we say Ethan, and I hope to dispel some of those concerns around that. Before we get into the actual nuts and bolts, what is an ESIM, just know that marketing teams all around the world from all sorts of reaches of technology are using it And the common misunderstanding is it's a technology that eliminates the need to add and remove SIM cards, and it's some sort of SIM card that lets you change carriers over the area. And the thing is, it's actually both. It's an embedded SIM card, and most often it has options for switching carriers, but not always. ESIMs leverage four main components. There's a hardware form factor, Technically, it doesn't have to be embedded. It could just be a SIM card. There's the operating system itself and how it manages profiles, There's the carrier profile, which is the keys to get into the network and access those network resources, and there's a subscription management element, which is the tools for managing the profiles on a SIM. Every ESIM is gonna have all four of these components for it to work. Now we're getting into the cool part, the form factor in manufacturing considerations, t two and I had a really good deep dive conversation around his experience on e SIM. This will be on the what to expect when you're connecting podcast. If you wanna get really into the details and the answers, But we're talking about an embedded subscriber identity module, keyword embedded, and that's why we're talking about form factor and acturing. So t two, talk me through with your vast experience in building connected devices, talk about these different elements that are brought up when it comes to embedding us in. Thank you, Ryan, for that. And, happy to be here today to share part of my experience. When you talk about it seems from a hardware perspective, they bring a number of advantages. First of all, it is a component that you literally soldered on a PCB assembly. So it's part of the PCB assembly as any other component. Therefore, vibration It's well improved when you compare with a seam that has a holder, has a connector, basically, and and it does prone to vibration to dust to humidity. So being soldered on the board improves vibration resistance, dust, and moisture. It's it's a component like any other electronic component. But because all of that becomes more rugged, Not to mention, it becomes smaller. The footprint, as the previous slide showed, the footprint of the EC it's much, much smaller than what we required for the socket to have a standard simpler. So these are maybe the main four five, from the hardware perspective, that brings advantage for a EC. Vibration, dust resistance moisture, physical ruggedness, and a much, much So then we get to go on to these security considerations. And I think these were the easiest ones as one at soldered so you can't remove it, and the other is that it's all put into a degree. So it's not a backroom or a, you know, some other place that the sims have to change hands. They're put under reels and they're put into place. For really secure applications, a number of carriers that offer an IMEI lock, which means that it locks the SIM credentials itself to the radio hardware. So even if someone were to remove the hardware, remove the circuit board and swap them around, shenanigans can be, prevented in that way. You can do it with removable sims as well. This is the thing that I think is interesting is the design consideration about what's possible when you don't need to design a Tray in. T two, if you could talk about some of those edge cases that come into play. Yes. Indeed. The simple fact that the SIM cannot be removed anymore. There is no card to be removed. That in itself improves security right there and then. And slide shows you can literally pot the unit. Make sure that the the board is working. You go go for the final, assembly and inspection. And then you literally put as the image of the left side shows, you put the the entire unit. It becomes a brick. At that moment, you cannot change anything, but it can leave submerged in water if necessary. So that is a great advantage for everything that travels exposed outside to elements as the the second or third picture shows. Yes. Whereable is a great example for e seems because of power and spa space requirements and the fact that they travel wearables are a great fit for e SIMs. As far as manufacturing with you're gonna have your connectivity provider, oftentimes you're getting your SIMs They're gonna come in and usually they come on a big reel of a thousand. I know one of the things that we did recently, since we work through companies like Mauser and Digi Key, there's been a need to do smaller runs. So, like, we've even got spools a minimum of a hundred down to, like, you can get samples ten. So getting that first article and first prototype is possible. Again, there is a wide variety of different ways in which you can get that, then you've got your module vendors, you go to your distribution partner and, you know, contract manufacturing happens, and you've got your final product. But by and large, t two, like, getting youronic works, these different selections are made either are how often are they made in advance? Oh, I will say most of the time. So right there and then at the design time, you have to select what ECM are going to use what model you're going to use, who who'll be the manufacturer for both of those. That's a very early stage decision that us as an engineer have to be comfortable with, but also the client has to understand what is coming after now. The e c brings a lot of advantages as show in this presentation. However, it brings the necessity of a, back end structure to support the functional But what that what once that is in place, the ism is a great solution for for the future. Yeah. And and especially for those large commodity commoditize products that are just being made in bulk. I think that's where we get into some of those pieces. Now the unadvertised impacts on quality and cost in our previous conversation. I didn't think about putting these together in the same set of list of bullet points on vibration and moisture prevention. But the ability to use robotic pick in place to put these devices down and having built connected products myself for many years I can still remember all of those line items of having people go in, punch out the little MMS two to the mini sims and then having to go in and insert them into the devices. And so just all of that cost and the chance for human errors our conversation, you'd mentioned that it just was just not seeding a SIM right is what caused a device to continually fail its QA test. And it was just pulling it out and putting a new one in, and that was the fix. Yeah. So indeed, Unfortunately, the simplicity of a SIM card, it makes it appealing. Yeah. Compared to the e SIM. That that's the the lure of the the the traditional SIM card. Don't forget that was that was designed some twenty, thirty years ago, if not more. Yes. You need this infrastructure behind the ecEM, but it gives all advantages after that. As you say, becomes a natural it's another component to install, and it is done automatically. It's reduced labor cost. They will will take a second or not a fraction was second to install it. You don't need the person to go and then verify, break it, put it in with this the skew that I put this one, it's in another skew for other It it it's so it reduces greatly the errors. And when it comes to harder products, we have to remember that once we ship things out, becomes exponentially expensive, become astronomical expensive to bring something back or send somebody there to replace something. So human error, albeit It's a small error. I placed the wrong SIM in the wrong part. It's a small error, but can have huge, ramifications. And since most people here already say e SIM is what we need, this isn't a, you know, removable SIM bad. It's just there are reasons that are good reasons. So let's talk through administration and operations and some of the external constraints. It's crazy how often we we hear people that are other voices on a call where they're like, so wait a minute. So we're soldering this thing onto our equipment. So that seems risky. And I think that's where we get internal pushback when you talk about these sims, but in order to get into this topic, Unfortunately, there is a handful of acronyms, and and this industry is nothing but acronyms. And these are the four that we're gonna be discussing on these next handful of scenarios, and we'll try and make it as clear as mud or as clear as possible. And and we're gonna be talking about, like, EYCC, which is that SIM OS, it's going to be setting the rules of how profiles move back and forth off of esem. RSP or the remote SIM provisioning is the process in which those profiles move from one place to another that it's not plugging it in, but it's happening all over the air. And then we got two different specifications, and you're gonna hear SGP over and over again. There's o two and twenty two. The first one is the m two m or machine to machine spec. It's for commercial non consumers, products, and we'll go into what these two different specs do and what the future holds. So what if I need to add another carrier or I wanna put my first carrier onto, a SIM. The most common implementation, this is in the automotive industry, and for most IoT devices are having to leverage this, is the SGP o two m two m. So it's pushing a profile remotely. So we have a a carrier that we wanna add in we wanna remotely provision, so we push the new SIM profile over the air, and the the EYCC spec understands how to receive what is a text message and then, initiates that download, and then it adds in the profile. The first challenge is that For every single carrier, the subscription manager that SIM OS needs to have an integration that's required. So When you have more than one carrier that you wanna work with, so that first e SIM that you buy works with a specific AT and T or Verizon or T Mobile, the minute you start going outside of that narrow band, carriers don't necessarily wanna make it easy for you to go and switch to another carrier, And again, this is the automotive industry. The regulation says you have to have some sort of cellular call for help button. There is no regulation that says that signal has to be good. There is no penalty if you're driving in a place where there is no tower coverage. They just pick a carrier, They put in a SIM. They meet the regulations, and that's it. So keep in mind follow the money there. The second challenge is that carrier cooperation is required. So both parties so if I have ESims, I currently use one provider and I wanna switch my my my coverage to another carrier in another part of the country, both carriers have to agree to in to incorporate that that that integration. If you are trying to transfer ownership of your esens to another carrier, it's more of the the EUICC that that OS, that standardized way of doing things, is more of an insurance policy. It's if I absolutely at the last like, there there are reasons I need to switch. There's going to be a high deductible that is required to pay. Knowing that This specification is not meant to be super portable. It just makes it possible. Delivery over intermittent connections is also a challenge when you're doing a push. Because the device doesn't always know how long it needs to stay up. If you sent that signal, that SMS to initiate the push, When you have very poor connectivity, it can interrupt and prevent that from happening. And if you were attempting to change carriers, in a area where you don't already have coverage, you will not be able to push the profile to that device. And I think this is one of those big challenges. What if you need to switch between several different carriers? What if you wanna have, you know, a telemetry device that drives between Canada and the United States, and you need to be able to switch between carriers as you're driving across. This is where we get into a conversation of steered versus non steered carrier switch. Reaching. So if that truck is driving across the border, and it knows that it's time to start switching because of geolocation, but it then loses signal, and now it's only in North yeah. Canadian coverage, it can't get the signal from your esim management portal to tell it to switch. So the challenge was so much of the esim architecture that's meant to be doing a lot of multi carrier switching, it's not really meant for that. And you're gonna run into a lot of issues. So how do modern smartphone switch carriers? This is actually a pretty decent experience. Right? You can join mint mobile, and take up Brian Reynolds on his deal for fifteen bucks a month, and and they'll over esim. They throw out using esim, we can put a new profile on. That's because they're using the consumer specification, and Apple and Google used their big smartphone dollars to pressure the industry into creating this specification, the SDGP twenty two consumer spec that says, hey, there is a carrier profile I want. So instead of pushing it, you're pulling it. So you control the data. You've got a connection. It's probably one of the better ways of doing it. But it does require that you've got a local profile assistant on your device, which means you've got an HMI. You've got a screen with software, with a user interface, where you can initiate it, maybe a camera to scan a QR code. And so then it pulls that new SIM profile on the device, and tada, we're good to go. So We love the simplicity of the consumer spec, but if you don't have a touch screen, how are you going to make this work? So we're gonna be looking at taking the best of both worlds, which is the push and the pull request using another party. SGP thirty two is an IoT spec that will be out in a year plus. I'm gonna say plus because when they say, one year, it really means probably two years. But this is actually pretty exciting in that it's gonna have an esM IoT manager, which triggers the profile download. So you're not pushing it and hoping it maintains the connection. It goes to the device, triggers the download. It then goes out and retrieves that particular, profile from the carrier, pulls it in, and you're good to go. This is really exciting. Another thing that's exciting is the adoption I SIM. So if you've got your SIM card or your embedded SIM, and then you've got your modem module, Now that we're looking at the next generation of I SIM, which is integrating all of the components from the SIM or the e SIM. Remember those four things, the form factor, the SIM o out, the ability to change things around in the profile, all of that gets built down into a system and chip. So t two, ten seconds on your feelings or opinions as an engineer for ICIN. I look forward to them. Definitely will from the Huddl perspective, it is, compelling. A, it's in integrated you will use less space and, most likely, less power. So it's a great step forward for us to reduce space applications let's speak about wearables. So it is very interesting. From a harder perspective, it's actually simpler. From the software and firmware and better software, that is the the challenge to come with applications and ways to initiate all initial as all these applications easier. Easier. For sure. And I think the one challenge is why I'm not saying anything more about this, only that it's coming is Until we can solve the adoption challenges of e SIM, there's no reason not to put even more eggs in the same basket. Which is putting everything all in the same chip and hoping that sells really well. So let's talk about how SORCOM supports multi carrier IoT deployment today. This is managing plans, moving things around. Just so you have a little more practical understanding. So multi carrier cellular data for smart devices on an embedded SIM What Sorecom has done is instead of relying on EUIC to put additional carrier profiles or add coverage, We've built within our own carrier profile our own SIM OS with a subscription container engine that manages multiple subscriptions so you can have multiple plans. In some cases, they refer to this as multi MZ, but this is a little bit different because all of the intelligence is happening within the profile itself, rather than switching between multiple profiles, that you would have on the SIM and having EYCC manage that. You can even have a UICC, which is a non embedded, but it's also the non multi profile sims, the early automotive industry had embedded sims using U ICC, where they only had one profile You couldn't change it. You couldn't do anything. It was fixed. And here, you can actually have the flexibility of putting multiple subscriptions on a lower cost Sim, whether it's a SIM or embedded SIM itself. You use your user console, you pick your subscriptions, and SORCOM sits in the middle, you're gonna have a user console. In most of these cases, you're having a user console of some kind where you can manage all of your different devices. We're gonna take this example of SORCom's based global network coverage, covers all of the different countries, but sometimes you wanna add additional elements. So for example, Let's make changes to cellular plans. And this example is in Brazil, they require after ninety days that you have a local subscription, a local profile from the carrier versus using any sort of roaming profile or anything along those lines. And so here, SORicon makes it so you can add that subscription within that subscription container. So when devices go to Brazil and they're there for the extended period, it now uses the local MC. So it future proofs devices whenever countries or carriers start getting when they start changing their policy about what types of plans look set, what's local or roaming, This technology future proofs those decisions without having to change out the embedded SIM itself. For example, we've got plan US Mac for customers that wanted to have all three major carriers, ATT, mobile, and Verizon. So device is gonna be deployed anywhere they want, and it's gonna be using the the the best coverage possible. So unlike that EU ICC where you're having that steered, that, the carrier steering, where you're telling which pair carrier you'll use. This one actually is gonna be recognizing all three of them at the same time in the United States, and it will If one of them loses signal, it switches over to the other. For example, when AT and T had their outage several weeks back, and millions of clients were our customers of AT and T all around the country were affected. We received zero service tickets There was zero support tickets about from people that were affected, and we even saw a corresponding drop in AT and T connections and an increase in Verizon and T Mobile. You review your list of active sims within your platform. You can go through and manage them all by group or custom tags. So that way you can have different customers, different deployments, different locations. If you wanna change up the subscriptions for those groups, It doesn't have to be an all or nothing issue. You never have to get lists of MCs and spreadsheets and send those out to anyone to make changes. It's pretty straightforward. You can add the subscription, select the subscription, then you get a subscription confirmation, and it tells you the delivery status of that update for all of the over the air updates. And next thing you know, all of those deployed devices now have that new plan. The some of the things that you can do in addition, you can start pause or stop services. So if you got seasonal interactive inactive sims, you can set up rules for doing that. So if you don't wanna be paying for sims that are sitting on a shelf waiting for RMA, you can set up event handlers to actually keep devices from going over a specific threshold. This is something that we always recommend everyone sets up is the first thing is setting up a rule setting a data threshold, it prevents devices from using junk error data and just running away. And so it notifies people in any number of different ways. Based off of specific sets of rules. You can improve data performance and reduce cellular data consumption with an ESIM And this is why we normally don't get the opportunity to talk about this because it's something you have to decide at manufacturing. Choosing lightweight protocols and agriculture and, in, a lot of different condition monitoring applications, If you can use something like TCP or UDP or even MQTT, it's a significant difference because there's something that's called TLS wrappers or TLS encryption, and it adds a lot of headers and footers to the code that you're using. Now it's like sending a small, like, a marker in a Amazon box, but a really big one in paying the shipping fee for that very large amount. So one of the things that Saurcom has done, we've got customers like Toku Systems. They do leak detection in very remote locations, where they're gonna have one to two bars of signal and the most expensive power consumer is the radio. And so they need to use send as little data as possible keep the radio on for as little as possible. And what they've done is they are sending all of their stuff as a binary It goes over through the SORACOM system. We add in the TLS wrappers and are able to then communicate with the cloud. So that reduces data on average by about eighty percent. So if it's a cost conscious thing, you're not paying for eighty percent less data. If it's a power and battery issue, you're now using a lot less radio. And so once the data is in the cloud, in our core network, You can apply lots of other things, logic, all that fun stuff. Here's something else that is important that can only be made early on in your device. The design decision is streamlining device authentication and certificate handling. So when we ask customers, where is the room for optimizing the provisioning process, people wanna be using AWS IoT or Azure IoT for management devices and kitting and cadrent credentialing. Takes up extra. It's extra moving pieces, adds extra steps. And so a couple of the things that what we did is if you're connecting your device an IoT cloud server. Typically, you're gonna have the user register device. It's gonna then and go and get their credentials, and it's gonna then copy the and push it down to the device, and da da. Now it authenticates and connects. But when you're making lots of devices, you actually have to give unique identifiers and have your PKIs, and your private keys put out to all of these unique devices. It's serializing them. It adds extra effort. So first, as the company register all the devices that you're gonna be getting manufactured, then you're gonna get your credentials, put them on a thumbstick, or use an, a secure upload, or sending someone in an airplane over to your contract manufacturer, and you're gonna take those credentials and they're gonna embed them during the manufacturing process in each of the devices that's put out there. This adds extra steps. Once the device then goes out into the world, it then turns on authenticates and connects. And this is using a series of credentialing services, and then you're also having to serialize and all of the unique identifiers, at the bottom. So you're using batch operations early on. You're putting all of your credentials out there well before you need to use them and it has the potential of delaying the actual production time on on things that you're making. The other thing you can do is using your esim as the secure hardware module and uses a service we call Krypton, and that's things registration and boot that reboot strapping for something like AWS IoT or Azure IoT. So it starts with the SIM being that unique encrypted key. It then goes through SORCOM, it registers it with your cloud platform service, and then it goes back, validates, issues the private key and certificate, and this is after it's shipped, so you can produce and manufacture at contract manufacturer, or wherever you're getting it done, ten thousand of the identical same device The only thing that's different is the esim inside, has its own unique code, and that's the very nature of a subscriber identity module is that they're already an encrypted hardware security module. So why put in more than So this is an opportunity to eliminate a lot of different moving parts. And then with NQTS, you can go back and it validates everything on the back end. This gets set up really fast, saves a ton of time, and, actually, although the cost of the third parties. So where else getting IoT E SIMs do things that traditional esims can't. You can bridge multiple carriers with a single network. You can set up multiple cloud platforms just by putting in your credentials and eliminating the development effort. You can have your own virtualized private APN set up in minutes, not months without having any of the minimums, contracting, legal, and lawyers, this is really cool for anyone that is moving sensitive data. And and even as the option of cutting the public internet off at the knees where a device is going right from the device, over the encrypted cellular network directly to your virtual private cloud or even your corporate VPN. Really cool stuff. Off. You can do remote access, open an SSH port on any device with a SIM, opening a a a session, so no special software required. So one SIM or esim, you get a whole lot of carriers and plans. You've got one platform that can manage them all in one place. You've got yourself a virtual APN that you can leverage that goes cross carrier. We have people that are all over the globe for very sensitive utility applications, that are able to do that. In the end, it's one relationship, and so you get all of the different carriers you need, and you don't need to worry about that. And that's what smart products need is simplicity. I open things up for q and a. We've got t two Boto share, and he can answer Lots of cool questions. So do we have anyone that would like to know more? T two, what does the lead time typically look like for designing in an e SIM. From the Huddl perspective, it doesn't introduce any delay or any anything when it comes to design itself. Yes. As I said at the beginning, before you start a design, the hardware design, in particular, you have to select the ECB on to choose the provider and all that and make sure that you have a path forward going with it. But from the from the how the perspective is actually simpler. I'm looking forward to when you can just buy a generic e u I c c g p IOT spec. Esign, and you can just upload whatever profile you want on there. And even even a SORCOM profile, you don't have to make a lot of those decisions early on. But right now, you do. You need to decide what direction you're gonna go from a carrier. How does E SIM if any, change the certification process for a device that's gonna go out into the world. If anything will make it simpler. And again, it's electronic component, yes, that from the hardware perspective, from the FCC and the certification perspective, it's another electronic component that, yes, it has to comply with all the rules and standards, but it's far simpler to do. It is easier because it is soldered on the board. You have no access to the you don't need a slot on the side of the unit. You don't have to open it and design this application much much. Because much is everything. What is the caution that you're often what kind of I gotta go look at this question again. Where do you find other stakeholders being overly cautious in early design discussions using e SIM. The issue comes with the perceived complexity of the e SIM technology and required background infrastructure compared with the, oh, it's so simple to get poke take the SIM out and I put another one. It's very simple. No. Unfortunately, this false image of simplicity of changing seam is detrimental for the e seams. Again, when you start to talk about, we have to make the car customer understand that we need all the infrastructure behind to support deployment of new profiles over the air. And that obviously has security implications. But the main point is that people should understand. Yeah. There is a there is some complexity, but there's nothing out of this order. You can do it without done it many times. But the point is that once you have that infrastructure in place, it does not matter if you want to do three hundred or three thousand or three hundred thousand for that matter. Because one of the big advantage of the e SIM technology is that the once everything is in place again is the scalability. You can go as high as you want. Yes. It is this part where we have to educate the customer. If I may say so, what it is to be done for the e SIM to reap the advantages and the benefits of e SIM. And yes, it is a bit of work at the beginning, but again, It was done many times when exactly has to be the what has to be done and what is the procedure and what are the steps to be taken. And we have to build up that infrastructure behind. But one that once that is in place, the sky the little sky is the limit because you can add and and scale your fleet of objects whatever that is from one to a million in matter of minutes. And we've seen before, gives you the extraordinary flexibility and the cancellation. I want to have the units with that from that quote unquote serial number to to the other serial number, do something versus the other. So you have all the flexibility once the infrastructure is in place. Sure. We've got a question here about, ISIM, why is ISIM not more commonly deployed or ready to ready to be deployed considering all of the benefits I think we know the answer to this question. It's I think it's easy to spell it. I think it's a little bit. Yeah. So I believe we have to go through a period when e SIM becomes the the norm, becomes the commodity on the market, and only then the industry will push more into the e SIM. We're creating the e SIM technology. It has great advantages, but also has requires investment at the beginning from from many parties coming to the table, and that will not happen if the market is not supporting it. Right. And the market is not there for it. And and it comes down to that same usability component, right, until esim can be ubiquitous and offer the same level of flexibility and interoperability that a removable SIM card offers, people's fear uncertainty and doubt about getting locked in or not being able to make a change will continue to hobble any project outside of those that needs to have soldered SIM card. Correct. My theory here is on the topic is that the as you use it, use the jump we have to do between the ECM and ICM will be much smaller and people will adapt it much faster than compared of SIM and EC. So once the EC means there, the the changes are not that drastically or big and will be much easier to adapt the new IC mini comps. I think it's gonna make it easier for the module in the module creators themselves because you're gonna need a lot more partnerships where it's gonna be hardware companies. The people who makes the system on a chip or the SOCs, and you're gonna have your module they're gonna have to work with all of these different carriers, because if it's today, you're gonna need a SORacom I SIM. You're gonna need to have a AT and T I SIM, or and if you wanna use the current EUIC standards, if you're damned if you're doing, you damned if you don't, because you gotta pick which one of these two you're gonna go with. Because you don't get both on the same esim. So now it's which SKU are you gonna be ordering? Do your devices have an HMI, and two, do you have end users who are choosing which carrier they want to use to support your smart device because it's in the m to m side that commercial EUIC implementation that's where you've got a centralized, you know, octopus lord, m v n o, or m n o, or whomever, or some company, that is managing a marketplace of different profiles that you can toggle between, and different carriers you can support. And I think that's the interesting spectrum that you have is that we are limited by hardware constraints right now and things like EU ICC. That forces people to make decisions sooner in the process, and until we can have companies with more agency where they can have more interoperability. Like, I can buy a phone. And as long as I don't owe them any money for a monthly fee, I can get it unlocked and move it where I want. But I think that's the same thing even as, even a big ag company that's doing monitoring of a of different fields, they're gonna want that same type of flexibility. But we've got another question here. Does Neuronic work solder ESMs for customers as part of their offering. The short answer, this is yes. Again, it can be done right from the beginning as in it is another component that we install at the same time with the other components on the on the PCB assembly. Or if the slot is if the footprint is there, you can definitely rework the boards and and, solder them. That is not a problem. Alright. So we are up against time, and so at this point, what I'd like for anyone that's still sticking around t two, why don't you give me your best pitch for Neuronic quirks? For anyone that is looking to make a smart device that may or may not be needing an e sim in it. What is it that you do? That's quite simple. We've been in business for fifteen years. We know product development. We know prototyping. We know how to pass a product for certification. We do pilot and we do full manufacturing. So we are vertically integrated house with fifteen years of experience doing end to end product development and manufacturing. You guys are based out of Canada? Which part of Canada? We are in, basically, Toronto. We are half an hour from the biggest airport here. Very easy to access from the highway, two minutes Highway or we are work up to come anytime. Oh, if anyone looking to get the stuff made, go up to Toronto and talk to my friends over at Neuronic Works I know SORCom has been working with you guys for at least a couple of years. Every time we have someone that's looking for recommendation, we send them over your way. They're always absolutely pleased with the work, the work product, the work ethic, the designs and the consultative approach to getting things made. So thank you so much for joining us today and being part of this discussion around ESIMs. Thank you for this opportunity. It was a great presentation, and we look forward to work with you, continue to work with you, and your clients. Thank you very much. Thank you, everyone, and take care.